Meet Paige
Paige is a lover of the mountains, hiking, rock climbing, popcorn, and her 90lb Goldendoodle Samson! A year ago, she and her husband moved back home to the state of Utah from Virginia where her husband Chad was attending Medical School. They were there for 3 years and lived in Utah for his last year of school. This summer they are starting their new 3 year adventure in California, where Chad has been accepted and is a current Medical Resident. Paige graduated college from Utah Valley University in May 2015. She has been working as a second grade Elementary Teacher in Utah and loves it. She has recently been searching for a new job in California and is looking forward to getting her new life in California started with her Husband.
Paige can be contacted in the Facebook Community. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ ShownotesMady interviews Paige about growing up as a minority in Utah, where less than 2% of the population is black. They also discuss body image, and the harm that can come from comments about one's body. Paige also details her experience being the spouse of a med school student and gives advice to partners of med school students. Paige talks about how she overcame having a sexist co-worker, and they discuss what feminism is and why it is hard for Paige to identify as a feminist. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ TranscriptionMady: Hi Paige, thank you so much for joining us for the show today. Could you introduce yourself to everybody? Paige: Of course - my name is Paige. I’ve been married for 5 years. I’m a teacher. My husband is in a medical residency, so he’s going to be the doctor man. I’m currently living in Utah with my parents, but moving out to California next week so I can go be with my hubby. Mady: In Utah, about 95% of the population is white - that includes about 10% hispanic. About 1.14% of the population is black. I’m wondering if you could tell us what it was like for you growing up black in a predominantly white community. Paige. For sure. I never had the horror stories that people talk about with being a minority which I feel super blessed about because people around me did have that experience. They would always ask, “How are you living here and not feeling the pressures of society or people putting you under this type of person.” So for me it wasn’t this big horrible thing. That’s not to say others didn’t experience that, because I know that they did. My parents raised me and my sisters to be really confident in who we were. I have bi-racial parents so I never saw myself as black or white. My mom is white, my dad is black. My skin is obviously black so I would never say I was a white person. I grew up very confident in who I was. I grew up around people who didn’t really see color if that makes sense. Mady: Ya, your race didn’t define you. You were who you were - you were just also black! Paige: Exactly. I was 1 of 3 people in my high school that was black. I was always the only black person in my elementary school classes. Sometimes I would notice those things, but I was never treated differently, I just could kind of feel that I stood out. Mady: Did it feel scary? Or confusing ever? Paige: I remember a specific instance when I was in like 4th grade and I was the only black person in my class and about halfway through the year, a black girl came into my class and I was like - “Oh my gosh! There’s another black person in my class!” And then we were friends for the rest of the year. I had other friends but we connected. Mady: That’s awesome. Your dad is from Nigeria and most of his family is from Nigeria, and your mom is white. You didn’t have a lot of representation of black women. Not in media, or politics, or government. Was that ever confusing? Paige: No - I mean it was sometimes in a sense. But I never felt completely confused. I identified with my mom who is a white woman. Blonde hair, blue eyes. It would be weird because we would be out in the grocery store and people would assume that I wasn’t with my mom because I was black, and that still happens today. I’m 28 years old, and I’ll be walking with my mom, and people will think I’m not even with her and they’ll just ignore me. But I never felt confused, just kind of left out. Mady: That’s cool that you identify with your mom. So you still had identification with white women because your mom is white. Paige: Right. I mean I still have black hair which my mom doesn’t know how to deal with. My dad was always the one who would help me know who to see for my hair. So I always associated with southern black women in Utah who did hair. I’ve been going to the same hair lady since I was like 10. So 18 years. Mady: There probably aren’t that many salons that do black hair in Utah. Paige: Oh no. I’m stuck with her. I would travel home from Virginia to get my hair done. Mady: That’s something I wouldn’t have thought of. You guys were in Virginia for med school. That’s where your husband Chad was going to med school. You said you didn’t have negative experiences surrounding your race there, but you did notice a lot of discrimination in the community. Paige: Ya, it was so strange to me. People would ask me in Virginia if I had a lot of discrimation against me in Utah, but actually I feel like it is way worse in Virginia than in Utah. Culturally, depending on where you on in VA, some areas definitely have pockets of black women and white women who just hated each other solely based off of race. They were passing that off to their kids at the elementary school where I worked at. They would always ask me questions like “Oh why do you have straight hair? You’re black. You’re supposed to have curly hair.” Or “Why are you married to a white guy? That’s not okay. That’s not what we do here.” The kids would say it, but when I would talk to parents they would ask the same questions. The kids are getting it from the parents. They were just surprised. I think it’s damaging to the community. I don’t understand why it happens. Mady: So it’s still very segregated? Paige: People still talk to each other - and this was just in a specific part of Virginia, just this part. I was working in a low income area that was less educated and less willing to change their mindset about things. They just blamed each other for their issues. It just was not helping any situation. Mady: Wow. I bet that led to some really uncomfortable situations. Paige: It would put down teachers so bad. A lot of parents, like white parents. I want to say white mothers because I rarely saw fathers. There was almost no father support in this area that I was in. Lots of white mothers would come into the school. They hated their child’s teacher because she was black, and vice versa. And it was all women involved. It was crazy. Mady: That is crazy. My mom lived in Virginia in the 70s or 80s, but she said - obviously it wasn’t formally segregated - but she said it was very segregated. You just knew where the white kids sat, where the black kids sat, and you didn’t cross the lines. And you didn’t have to deal with authority getting mad at you, just the other group. Paige: Totally. That’s so interesting that it’s still like that. That’s something that I didn’t realize until moving there. I was like “Wow this is still an issue.” You know that the south has more of that than the west, obviously, but still! I didn’t think parents would be storming into classrooms or children would be dissing on each other because of their skin color. Mady: You and Chad have been married 5 and a half years. You guys dated for a few years before you got married. It’s funny because when I interviewed Nora she talked about how she had so much unsolicited advice from people telling her she was too young, they hadn’t dated long enough, etc. You kind of had the opposite of that, right? Paige: Oh ya. We dated for almost 3 years. And culturally that’s just not how it goes in Utah. Other people, especially other women I knew who were older than me would ask - “Are you guys going to get married?” “You’ve been dating long enough. You should know by now.” And things that were in my personal life that they didn’t need to know. I’m like “well we’re dating and this is working for us and it’s what we want to be doing, so I don’t know why you think you know me better than me. So please stop telling me this.” Mady: Do you think they were trying to be helpful? Paige: I think some people genuinely were like, “Oh why aren’t you getting married? Get married! It’s great!” But the majority of people like the kind you run into in the grocery store who follows you on social media and knows your parents, those are most of the people that try to give advice or tell you nonchalantly what you should be doing when I don’t know if they understand that that can be offensive or come across wrong. Mady: I think too that sometimes people - I notice more with women - where they approach a conversation where they’re interested in learning something juicy or interesting like maybe about a relationship - and they’re trying to be helpful but they also just genuinely want the information because it’s fun information to have and they probably want to gossip. Even if they’re not really telling themselves that, and they think they’re being helpful, they’re probably going to go and share that info. Paige: I totally agree. You don’t know them well, so why do they care? Everyone just wants the juice. “Why haven’t you gotten married? Something must be wrong. You must have done something wrong.” I know people had to have thought those things, but it was up to us and no one else. Mady: Jameela Jamil is an actress in the Good Place, and she coined this term “double agent for the patriarchy.” And the patriarchy is just a word that a lot of feminists use that is basically talking about the system of oppression that they’re fighting agains - which sounds dramatic. But it’s basically just a system of power or a society where men have more power or authority than women do. Like for example the fact that we’ve had 44 male presidents and no female presidents. So being a double agent for the patriarchy is when women are doing things that are actually not helpful at all in women’s attempts in equality and they’re actually kind of harmful. I think it happens a lot, but you talked about it in an interesting way regarding body image and body size last time we chatted. You’ve had a lot of situations where women have said really negative things to you. Paige: Ya. I liked that quote for more than one reason regarding women putting other women down over something they don’t like about them or something that they’re jealous of. I’ve had quite a few experiences where I feel like they’ve just been inappropriate and I feel like regarding body image, nothing should be said to a woman about her body regardless of her shape or size. Mady: I love that! Nobody should talk about a woman about her size. A lot of women have body image issues because they want to be smaller. You naturally have a very small frame, and you’ve never had any issues with weight. What are the kinds of things you’ve heard from women. Paige: Ya. I’ll start with the small and then get to the juicier ones. I was at a party, and home-made caramels were being passed around. So I don’t know why she was even watching me, but I took 1 piece of candy out of the jar because that’s what I thought was polite, and this woman was like, “Oh - that’s how you keep your body so small. Of course you would only take one piece of candy!” And I would never have said to someone who took a handful of candy, “Oh of course you took a handful of candy and that’s why you look that way.” I would never say that! Mady: Ya! And I don’t think that anyone notices it when they’re talking about small or thin bodies because they think it’s desirable. It’s not a compliment, and I don’t think it’s meant to be, but I don’t think it’s meant to be. It’s just remarking your body. Paige: And that’s a problem to me. They need to think about it! What if I did have body image issues. I don’t - but what if I did and then she said that. Oh now next time I’m going to be embarrassed and not want to take any because of that comment. You don’t know how people are going to take it. Mady: There could have been someone at the party that did have body image issues or issues with their body size, and when they hear that and notice that you’re small, they just think oh Paige is only having one. Maybe I should only have one so I can be small too. Paige: Ya. And I would never want someone to feel ashamed over how they are. I mean I think there are healthy habits that I think people should take into account. But I just thought it was inappropriate. Mady: I think that women can be very harsh inwardly when they see women who are petite or have any kind of body frame that they wish they had, but you can’t make other people feel bad about that. That’s your own issue, and it’s obviously a real issue that we’ll address in a second - but they’re taking it out on you and that’s not fair at all. Paige: Ya it’s their own insecurities coming out on me or other women experiencing the same thing. I just had another instance where I was in high school I think, and I played soccer, and all the team got together and lined up, and we put our heels together, and some team mates were looking to see if other thighs touched. My thighs didn’t touch, and I wasn’t the only one, but they were like, “Ok you can’t be on the scrimmage team because your thighs don’t touch.” That’s so ridiculous. I remember thinking - am I too small? Maybe my thighs should touch. Maybe that’s more attractive. But at the same time I was like - “No, you can think whatever the heck you want to think, but I’m fine.” Mady: And it’s great that you had that confidence but not everyone does, so those comments can be so harmful. Paige: Ya - I have more if you want me to share. Mady: Oh, I do! *laughter* Paige: I worked at an elementary school, and I walked into the teacher’s lounge to get my lunch. There were about 15 teachers in there. Majority women - like 2 guys. I went to get my lunch out of the fridge, and a woman, maybe in her early 50s, yelled really loud across the lunch room - “Oh my goodness. What size pants do you wear. You are too small!” And I just stopped dead in my tracks, like “Did she just say this?” And I had just told my husband a few weeks prior - the next person who calls me out is going to hear it from me. So I turned around and said, “Well what size pants do you wear?” and she just looked at me like, “Woah, I didn’t expect you to say anything like that.” But I was like, good, that’s the point I wanted to get. But she just said, “Oh, uh, you don’t want to know what size pants I wear.” And I was like, ya, that’s right. Don’t call me out in front of all these teachers. That’s so inappropriate. Mady: Ya. And I love that juxtaposition of her thinking it’s okay to ask what size pants you wear, but then the moment you flip it on her she realizes it’s not okay. Paige: Ya. Like if she were to walk in the room, and I asked, “Oh my gosh. What size pants do you wear?” I would be looked at as the rudest person on the planet. But since I’m small she doesn’t get the bad rap. Mady: You would probably be reported to HR and have a situation on your hands if you talked like that to her. Paige: And there were 2 guys in there which doesn’t quite change it - but it kind of does because then they’re looking at my body and I feel awkward. Mady: Ya because it draws attention to your body. Paige: I really think that it’s coming of a place of insecurity in their own body, and I think that until people start recognizing that it’s okay to be whatever size your body naturally is, that will keep happening. Even in the media everyone is super excited whenever a company has a new plus size mannequin or plus size apparel, but until that just is normal and not something to be celebrated - people will continue to look at bodies as if they’re something to be manipulated into what you want, and into objects that indicate something about the person. You can just be a bigger bodied person and be really active, really healthy - whatever that means - and that’s just your body size. And you can be a really petite person who eats ice cream and Hot Cheetos and soda every day, and people might look at you and assume that you worked hard and cultivated that body. Because media portrays that body as a perfect state. That’s why diet culture is so pervasive because everyone is trying to achieve that body. But it doesn’t work that way. Paige: I think you hit on a really big thing with the media. And especially social media. We’re used to seeing perfect women in movies, but now on social media there are so many opinions about so many topics. And women are seeing more bodies shoved in their face than they would see on an average day just walking around town. So I think comparisons become so relaxed and they just don’t think about it. Mady: I like what you’re saying with social media. If you’re watching TV or something with celebrities, they obviously are what society deems as beautiful, and that’s what people will strive towards and think is normal. But then it’s even more normal when all you see on social media is women who are posed to look their best, women who take pictures when they look their best. And women who are not comfortable with their bodies because their bodies don’t fit conventional beauty standards, those women aren’t going to share their pictures so no one is seeing those women on social media which perpetuates the cycle. Paige: And speaking about feminism and women empowerment, it goes both ways. It can be a huge negative to see all of these things on social media and people posting about their body, but at the same time it can be positive because people can relate and see bodies that look like theirs and women who are confident in their bodies. But part of me wonders if they feel that way. I’m not influenced by social media because I don’t know how true it is. Anyone can post a picture and write anything they want and people believe it. I think there are sincere influencers, but with women empowerment I see so many things that make people think they have to be so strong on one side of an opinion and they can’t sway. Mady: Ya, and with what you were saying about people and when they’re sharing and how they feel or what they believe when they share it - I personally have posted a body positivity post about my own body - but when I posted it I was at my best. I had been working out a crazy amount which was why I felt so good. I think that’s when we hear people talk about body positivity. It’s when they’ve achieved the body that they’re proud of, and you can’t be positive about your body otherwise. I’ve heard an interesting idea called body neutrality. It talks about the idea that we don’t need to be talking about loving our bodies more, we just need to stop talking about our bodies so much. And if we talk about it less people will have less issues. If you think of your body as something you have to love, if it doesn’t meet society's standards it’s going to be very hard to love your body. Paige: That is really cool. I’ve never thought about that before. That is so true. Why are we even talking about bodies? I get that you can be proud of your body. If a woman has a baby and has gained a lot of weight and then loses it, you can be proud of that, but why do we have to validate through others that it’s something we need to be proud of? It doesn’t matter. Mady: And it’s very individual. For some women it might be very unhealthy for them to lose weight after having a baby. It shouldn’t matter how a woman’s body looks right after she grew a baby and then pushed it out. Paige: Right! You just did something that’s crazy amazing and something that I personally am so afraid of. I’ve had friends have people who are like “Oh wow, you look so good” after they had a baby and they don’t feel good. You just shouldn’t say anything at all. It should be about the baby. Mady: Right. It doesn’t have to be about the body. And I’ve heard a lot of stories about women who have been really ill and they’ve lost a lot of weight, or they switch medications and it causes a weight fluctuation, or maybe they’re struggling with an eating disorder and they’re starving themselves, and someone tells them they look great - even though they’ve never felt worse. Paige: it’s so unhealthy. We should just stop. There should be no comments about the body unless it comes from the doctor. Unless you know that person so well, you have to be really careful. Mady: And it really doesn’t matter as much as people think it does. You can be healthy at whatever size you’re at. The more we talk about it the more important it will seem and the more driven people will be to have a different body. Paige: Totally. I don’t know how society’s going to get there. But hopefully it does. That’s why we’re having this conversation! Mady: I could talk about this all day, but I don’t know if anyone would keep listening! So I’m going to switch gears a bit. When Chad was in med school, you went into it with some notion of what to expect, and everyone kept telling you that it was really tough, and you weren’t hearing much more than that. Can you talk about that experience? Paige: Before med school people always said it would be hard and I didn’t know what to expect. We knew it would be hard. Once we got there the medical school had this seminar for all of the spouses of the medical students. I just found it to be really negative in a lot of ways. All of the wives in the previous year were on the panel, and I just felt like I was excited to go and be empowered and get the ins and outs of how to get through it - but everything was just like “this will be the hardest thing you’ll ever do. If you don’t have family, good luck. Many of your marriages will end. Make sure you’re working on your marriage because it’s easy to become disconnected.” If I wasn’t scared before! I wish it was more positive. Of course it’s going to be hard, but what can I do to get through this? That’s what I wanted to hear. Mady: So what were things that were hard, and then how did you handle them? Paige: I’ll admit - the first year of med school - and I think this applies to anyone whose spouse or partner travels, has a busy job, is in the military, etc, not just med school, although I think all med school spouses can relate. The first year I just felt bad for myself. It sucked and I hated it. I didn’t know anyone, I never saw Chad. I was stuck feeling bad for myself. This probably lasted a year until I changed my mindset and said “Ok this is the situation, what am I going to do to be happy? What am I going to do?” That mindset changed my life for the next 2 years in Virginia. Mady: So what did you change? You told me it was hard to do anything by yourself and you felt alone. So what did you do? Paige: I just had to go do those things by myself. I had to accept that he wasn’t going to be at the birthday party, on the triple dates, celebrating the holidays. He wouldn’t be able to do those things, but I was available. It’s weird when you get married, because you don’t do stuff without your spouse. If he can’t go - then you don’t go. But you need to go, because that’s what is good for you. I met so many people from just deciding to go to things. My work friends were such a blessing because they would always invite me to do things with them. At first it was awkward, but it’s amazing how people recognize your situation and that you’re uncomfortable, and they take you under your wing and include you. But you have to feel vulnerable. You have to put yourself in that situation, because you still need to do things for you. Because if you don’t, you’re just going to be stuck where you already are. Mady: I love that. And I think that for new couples are in a happy little bubble where you do everything together, and for me and my husband we almost get social anxiety because we only know how to be around other people together - which sounds lame, but it’s hard. Paige: That’s so real. I felt the same way. I felt bad, or I would stay home for 5 hours so that I could see Chad as soon as he got home. But he wanted me to be happy. He wanted me to go on the double dates and hang out. He accepted that he couldn’t go, but I should still be able to. And I think that women feel guilty doing stuff without their spouse, but men don’t have that. Mady: Yes! I had this conversation with Danny. He doesn’t get it either. I asked him if he would feel guilty if he went to play video games with his friends, and he was like “Why would I feel bad about that?” Paige: He can just do his own thing. Mady: Yes! Paige: Ya I don’t know what it is, but I’ve gotten over it now because of Med School. We had spent so much time together before med school, but once we moved to Virginia, I would go to bed before him, he would get up before me, and days would pass where we wouldn’t even get to see each other. And it’s really just a mindset thing. That’s not to say I didn’t ever have hard days and watch Vampire Diaries all day, but the mindset helped so much. And now our next move, I’m so excited because I get to start the move with this mindset and just jump in and start doing things. Mady: You mentioned that there are a lot of spouses that don’t do this. They just wait for it to be over because they’re excited for what’s to come - but then they just wasted all that time waiting around and their partner grew so much, but you didn’t. Paige: That’s the thing - you can’t just wait around. One day I was doing that and I was like “Oh - he’s home!” And everyday it was like wake up, go to work, come home, wait for Chad, go to bed. And it was the same everyday and I wasn’t going anywhere. And Chad was growing in like every way - but I was just his supporter at home. But that’s not what it is. I had to step out of myself and do what was good for me otherwise he would get so far ahead of me and I would just still be the same person. Mady: Right. Paige: I wouldn’t trade going to VA for anything because of how much I’ve seen myself grow. It was hard but worth it. I don’t know how you grow if you don’t go through hard things. Especially as women it’s hard to put ourselves, I think we need to realize that it’s hard but we can do it. And when we do - it’s amazing! Mady: And you guys are just making it work because that’s what you do. Paige: Exactly Mady: You told me that you had a co-worker in Virginia that was very deliberately sexist. Can you tell me some of the things that he would do? Paige: He was sexist not only to me, but most of the staff was female.And no one would stand up to him. He would always check in to see if we were doing our job or needing help. He would ask our ideas and then shut them down. He was very dominant and chauvinistic. Everyone was just so over him. So I decided that I wasn’t going to put up with it anymore. He started checking up on me while I was with kids. And that wasn’t his job. So he came in the room and started going off on how to handle a situation with a student, and I was like “No thanks.” And I closed the door and kind of pushed him away. The next time this happened, I saw him coming and I got up and got to the door before him. I made eye contact, and I shut the door in his face. He looked at me, and I made eye contact with him. It shut right in his face. There was a window, so I could still see him. And I didn’t hear from him again. Mady: That probably felt good. Paige: Ya. I didn’t say anything rude, I just made it clear that I didn’t want him around, because he was being very rude. Mady: I’m sure you had done plenty of subtle things prior to this. Paige: Oh ya. Mady: But those weren’t enough. Paige: I had politely tried to give him the hint, but I needed to be more stern. Mady: At that point you need to protect yourself. Paige: Ya. He would always find women who were alone and go into their room and talk to them, and I think he would flirt a little, but he would just be very dominant and adamant. And I didn’t think he was going to do anything weird, but it was very clear that he was crossing a line and you need to say something. Mady: I think a lot of women are in similar situations, and they’re worried about being accused of being unprofessional or making things awkward. So it’s a tough spot. It sounds like you found a good way to stand your ground without engaging in a major conflict. Paige: People are going to push buttons. If someone was struggling with this I would say, people will push buttons and see how far they can get. If they see it’s annoying you they’ll keep going. If you don’t do anything that sends a message clearly it won’t stop. It can be as simple as shutting the door on someone and keeping eye contact. There are strong but subtle ways to help people get the hint and you have to find what that is and what you’re comfortable with. Mady: For myself, if someone would tell me something specific to say in this situation or try to tell me what to do, it is so hard in the moment to actually do that. So I like that advice. Find something deliberate, not necessarily too confrontational or too subtle, that gets your point across. Paige: If someone is putting you down, they know what they’re doing. You confronting them about it in whatever way works for you is going to make them feel it. And doing nothing is going to make them keep going. Mady: Personally I worry about hurting people’s feelings, but with the way you’re saying that it is deliberate and intentional, that makes it a little easier to be okay with standing up for yourself. Even if it should be easy anyways, for some of us it is hard. Paige: Exactly. Mady: We’re low on time, so I want to end with this question: What are your feelings with the word feminism. Paige: Oh man. *laughter* Paige: I don’t think I could identify as a feminist because of all the skewed ideas about feminism. I haven’t read enough about feminism to know what it is or how to view it. There are a lot of different opinions about “feminists” and there is a spectrum of feminists. People like you how just want women to be comfortable and feel like they can be themselves. I agree with all of that. I just don’t think that I could say that I’m a feminist, because there is that stigma with it that you hate men, you want to have long leg hair, free the nipple, all these things that I don’t want anything to do with. But what I’ve come to find talking to you is that that isn’t - I’m not very educated in feminism, but that’s not what it is or what it should be, I don’t think. Mady: The thing with feminism is, it is a spectrum. There are a lot of people doing a lot of really wonderful things with it. Even those things that you’re not into - that is some feminists jam. And that’s great because that’s how they celebrate and live feminism. That’s what they think is important and that’s how they think they’ll shatter glass ceilings and change laws. Some of those movements have made wonderful changes. I also think that there are plenty of women who identify as feminists who have never been to a march, they don’t talk about it too much, but the fact that they identify as a feminist means that they want women to have equal rights. Paige: I totally support that. There are issues in society. Women not getting paid as much as men, not having the appropriate maternity leave. I was talking to Chad about it the other day. And he was saying that he thinks the government should implement something so that companies can feel more comfortable hiring women who are going to have a baby because some people don’t want to hire someone whose maternity leave they’ll have to pay. Because there is a man behind that child - and he gets to work. Mady: There are some countries where women can get fired when they are pregnant for that same reason. I have a friend who lives in Denmark, and she just had a baby, and she gets to be out for a whole year. Paige: That’s awesome. There definitely are issues where I am totally a feminist and on the women’s side. Mady: I also think that the radical things that feminists have done that lead to the stereotype are sometimes what it takes to create change and get people to recognize problems. Sometimes you have to be loud and you have to be angry. And it’s really sad that this attempt to equalize the sexes has been portrayed as the people trying to make the change are crazy. It goes to show how much work needs to be done. The people fighting for women’s rights are being dubbed as angry, crazy, radicalists who are targeted and treated poorly because they want women to have equal rights. That blows my mind. Paige: I’ve never though of it that way. You do have to be loud and make a statement to make sure people are understanding where you’re coming from. Though I do feel like there are still extremes that are being taken that I don’t understand. I would rather sit and talk to a friend about it. Mady: i think it’s your prerogative how you want to be a feminist. And I don’t think a lot of people recognize that. Paige: To an extent I think every woman is a feminist, because of course you would want women to be treated equally. “ Mady: That’s why I think this was such a smart and insidious way to handle feminism - to discount it by saying “it’s just a bunch of crazy women.” It is something that needs to happen - so what a way to prevent it. Let’s discredit them all and make society think they’re crazy so they don’t change anything. Paige: Right. It’s a shame. I feel like there are so many women who have something to say but they’re not going to put themselves out there to do the things that get attention like holding a sign or not wearing a bra. Mady: I guess I would just say that if you think you identify as a feminist or you want to be a feminist but you don’t want to do anything radical, a great way to share information about women’s rights, women’s empowerment, and women’s happening, use social media. That’s a huge tool. Paige: If there was a group out there that wasn’t radical and just wanted to share good thoughts and ideas about feminism, I think the majority of people could relate. Mady: That’s what I’m trying to do! :) Paige: Ya, Mady! Mady: Trying real hard! Well thanks again for joining us, Paige. This has been great.
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